The Business Millennials Podcast

2.7 [Part 2] Self Regulation As A Business Owner

September 18, 2024 • Ashley Dreager • Season 2 • Episode 7

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In this second part of their conversation on self-regulation and mental health in business, Ashley Dreager and Safa Harris dive deeper into personal insights and experiences. They discuss the inevitability of challenges in entrepreneurship, the importance of self-awareness, and strategies for pushing through difficult times. The hosts explore the concept of sacrifice in business, the role of perspective in decision-making, and the value of trusting the process while maintaining objectivity.

Key Takeaways:

  • Self-regulation tools are crucial for maintaining awareness and making informed decisions during challenging times
  • Sacrifices in business should be evaluated based on long-term goals and personal priorities
  • Perspective and mindset play significant roles in resilience and perseverance as an entrepreneur
  • Trusting the process while maintaining objectivity is essential for business growth
  • Self-care practices like exercise, journaling, and spirituality can help manage stress and improve decision-making

Timestamps:

0:58 - Introduction to part two of the self-regulation conversation
3:52 - Discussion on sacrifice and comfort in business
10:49 - The importance of knowing your "why" in business
16:09 - Trusting the process and avoiding emotional decision-making
25:54 - The role of perspective in managing sacrifices and challenges
31:51 - Personal anecdote on finding meaning in difficult experiences
36:45 - Strategies for self-regulation and maintaining balance

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Intro:

Welcome to the business millennials podcast. This show brings you strategic insights through raw and unfiltered real world advice to accelerate your business growth for longterm success. I'm Safa Harris, and I'm Ashley Drager. We're the founders of scale and thrive co a full service marketing and business development firm, helping visionary companies scale sustainably. Expect us to have the uncomfortable conversations that no one else is having. We'll break down what it really takes to grow and scale your business beyond six We all know that we live in a world where we can't afford to do things the way we want Some of the things that we can do to do is to buy and sell, to build and grow. That's all there is to it. And so that's why we're here. We can do it. It's our job to

Ashley Dreager:

So this is a part two of our conversation around self regulation and mental health and business. So this episode we wrap up some of the personal insights and experiences that we have around how business has affected us personally and professionally and some of the things that we do to keep pushing through in the really hard times because they're inevitable. They're going to come up. So Some tips on what we do personally and the awareness is that we have as business owners and individuals and what we've done to process that. Uh, but something that keeps coming up as I'm listening to your speak is that the solution or the options may not always be comfortable. They may not always be ideal. There's probably going to be some level of sacrifice. And I think in today's day and age, we lean very heavily on comfort. And if it's going to be uncomfortable, we look for any other solution, any other option to keep us at that, at our preferred baseline comfort level. Because, you know, thinking about the last couple of years, there's been so many things that I could have done differently, but I didn't want to. go through those discomforts. I didn't want to give up my preferred sleep schedule or my gym schedule or a certain amount of time with the kids or, you know, just anything like that where it's like, well, I don't want to do it like that. I don't want to experience this. I want it to look this other way. And I would imagine with your parents that there was a lot that they experienced Where they had to give up certain things or they had to make certain sacrifices or whatever that period looked like in their life wasn't what they thought it was going to look like. It wasn't ideal. my parents aren't, I don't come from a background of business. Uh, my parents both worked. I don't want to say they weren't like regular jobs, but they were, they weren't enough to pay the bills. Most of the time we went through some very difficult times growing up and that wasn't always the case. Um, but we come from very different backgrounds in, in terms of that level of what sacrifice looks like. And obviously my parents sacrificed, you know, without having the sky's the limit on what you're going to be able to bring in or build or experience down the road. Because, you know, like you said, when you have a job, there's There's going to be a cap. There's going to be a limit. So

Safa Harris:

Yeah, and like this is where I'm like, well, I think that's like a perspective mindset thing where it's like when and I feel like I see this more and like American society and culture, um, versus like in. Like foreign culture and like Pakistani culture and things like that, where it's like, Oh, well, you're supposed to work a job. You're supposed to do that. So you can pay your bills and then your kids turn 18 and they will go work a job and they will provide for themselves and they will do all of that. And if you give them too much, you're doing them a disservice and da da da da da and then, um, I think, well, one, I think all parents, well, good parents make sacrifices. I think

Ashley Dreager:

yeah.

Safa Harris:

of being a parent is like, is sacrificing, and they obviously made sacrifices. You're here today. They fed you. You

Ashley Dreager:

I survived.

Safa Harris:

your doctor's appointments, exactly, like, you

Ashley Dreager:

it through.

Safa Harris:

get, exactly, like, you had your doctor's appointments, and you ate, and maybe you didn't always eat, but like, they made sure you, you lived, And at the end of the day, some days I'm like, well, everybody lived today, so.

Ashley Dreager:

I've said that to Justin before he's like, how's the night going? I'm like, well, everybody's alive and no one's crying. So

Safa Harris:

it's a win.

Ashley Dreager:

we're here.

Safa Harris:

for your parents, it was like, okay, we're working these jobs, we're paying our bills, and we're sacrificing these things so we can continue to raise these children. And that is what we have to do. And we're giving up these things because In all honesty, they could have worked their jobs, like, left you all to, like, fend for yourselves, and just kept themselves comfortable. It's like, oh, well, I'm gonna make sure I still get I don't know, go to the beer hall and not pay. whatever,

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah, yeah.

Safa Harris:

and then, but for my parents, it was like, well, this is, we need to do this for their future and have this amount of money and do all of those things. And just working a nine to five will be an even more sacrifice than working The sacrifice of the stress on us right now, because we never felt their financial stress. We never, like, they never told us being like, hey, I'm borrowing from Peter to pay Paul to do all of these things. Like, but we know that just being on that conveyor belt is not what's going to be what's right for us in the long term and not what we want to give. children and things like that, so I think it's just like a different type of sacrifice and in the position that they're willing to make it in. So I think for like your parents, it was more of a sacrifice of like the availability of like. Cash or whatever to just make sure everything is paid for. And for my parents, it was a sacrifice of time, effort, energy, and a different type of, I feel like more of like, like a mental comfort and all of that. And I think that is a lot of where the, well, how do I know that it's the time to, you know, Let it go when when is enough is enough and when it comes to the world, like this is not good for my mental health. It's not good for all of those things. And. I'm not saying that, like, completely let all of that go, but, like, that is sometimes the sacrifice.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. Well, and this is where those separate self regulation tools come in. So that you have the awareness, you have the ability to move through things on your own if and when you need to, or you have the awareness to know when it's time to seek external support, whatever that may look like. The

Safa Harris:

self awareness, no, in two folds. Like, one, knowing what your priorities are. What is, like, the most important to you? What are Your actual big goals and what you want to be able provide for yourself, your Children, whoever it may be. And that's not just like, now and also knowing when, like, knowing yourself well enough. To know that you are not handling a difficult situation your life or a challenge when you're going through something hard and challenging it's it sucks Like it's not good. It's like it's bad and you never feel good about it, but When are you going to? You need to know that that is what's happening to you. And that is why you're acting the way you're acting the way you're feeling your way. You're feeling the why you're having the thoughts you're having and why you're having all of those things and have that awareness of like, this is what's happening and then act differently and do things to, uh, Make yourself feel a little bit better while you're going through the challenge and having that awareness. I

Ashley Dreager:

cliché It's cliché because you hear it all the time, but knowing your why really does serve a purpose in business because there is going to be a lot of sacrifices and it's going to be really hard. It's gonna be really uncomfortable. And if you're just doing it for the sake of having more money, it, it's not gonna work long term. The money's not gonna be a good enough carrot to keep chasing.

Safa Harris:

and honestly, I don't even think, oh, because I want more time at home with my kids is enough of a why.

Ashley Dreager:

Because you'll probably have less at the beginning.

Safa Harris:

Well, might have more but it's gonna be more frustrating.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah, yeah.

Safa Harris:

to be You're going to have more time with your kids. You will be around more, but it's not going to be the fairy tale that's painted to you.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

Because even though, like, we're in a huge season of growth right now and, like, we have a lot going on and we, we're, we can see the light at the end of the tunnel type of thing, I do know my children better now and what's going on with them, what's happening, just being around them. You know,

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

there day to day and seeing all of that than if they were at daycare for 10 hours a day. And I don't, and like, that's another thing it's like, Oh, well you can just not work at all and like make that sacrifice of not having that money and things like that. But I don't know. It's choosing your comforts too, right? It's like, I, I'm going to work and like put this physical sacrifice in place, but I want to like, Be able to save and like get takeout and Be able to eventually have like these bigger investments and do all of these things because that is the comfort I choose

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

And in that these are the sacrifices I make In this moment to have that in the future

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

I don't know. That's why I think it's like it's hard when people are like, oh, well, when do I call it quit? it's like You It depends on you, your choices, your life, your goals, your why, what you're trying to do this for, and for me personally, it's very future oriented, versus in the moment, so, I think, That's why I even make some more sacrifices now on like my daily routine or my sleep or whatever because i'm like If I want it That's the only way I can do it to make this happen if I really want to make this happen This is the only option I have so

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

I going to do?

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

I can't there are other things I can go do but like that. I don't want that

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

So but I so i'm just choosing comfort the delayed gratification thing

Ashley Dreager:

I know we've both said to each other, at many times, Why are you awake right now?

Safa Harris:

Yep,

Ashley Dreager:

So for context, she's in Florida, I'm in Washington, So we're on the opposite sides of time zones, so. Yeah, it's um,

Safa Harris:

because

Ashley Dreager:

there's a lot of

Safa Harris:

hour for her and I'll be working late and then like, well, or she'll like message me not expecting a response or I'll send her a message and she's like, what's going on? Or when I get a I'm up in the morning at like a normal time and then I get a message from her, but it's like 3 a. m her time. I'm what is happening? It's like either you haven't gotten to bed yet or you woke up really early. Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

kids at home is a terrible idea Oh my gosh, but um Yeah. So I know for myself, there has been a lot of times recently, um, where you've called me out on needing to self regulate, um, because something that we haven't touched on in last week's episode or this week's episode yet is, um, is trusting the process too. So we've talked a lot about You know, when do you, what are the sacrifices? When do you call it quits? How do you know that you're at the end of this journey? But there is also a point where you need to do the work to self regulate and trust the process and know that you've done the work in the business or that you have things set up in a way to succeed. As long as you don't get in the way, because your emotions are going to get you in the way very easily. And it's really hard to identify it if you're not doing the day daily work or having those practices in place to identify, identify and have that awareness of we're getting to this point, time to take a step back. Don't make decisions. Don't send that message. Don't send that email. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Safa Harris:

like some things in business are going to leave you traumatized. Like if you've had slew of bad clients or you've had a slew of like bad sales calls or you've had a slew of just like like just losing money or whatever Even when something good comes And it starts working out. You're gonna automatically be like Oh, this is just like before. And that's kind of what I'm referring to in those moments, is one having the awareness that like, I know that I am not taking in external data objectively in the moment. So I need to make sure I'm stepping back and looking at the facts and seeing what the situation actually is. Because you may not recognize a blessing. may not recognize a win. When it's there and you're going to treat it like all the other losses. And if you do that, you can end up like sacrificing that blessing, not appreciating it and possibly messing it up. So

Ashley Dreager:

I've talked about this a lot in the, in the marketing context, that that's why it's so important to have those numbers and have the data because otherwise you're going to just be making decisions based off of subjective

Safa Harris:

vibes.

Ashley Dreager:

Vibes. Versus objective numbers and results, um, because it's, your brain wants you to survive, right? Like you get into a survival state. And I know for me, I really struggle with like situation permanence. So when I just ongoing general life, I think this is always how it's going to be. I know logically that's not. The case, but my feelings, my emotional state is, I'm always going to be experiencing X, Y, Z it's life is always going to look like this. We're always going to have to make these sacrifices with our schedule or bath times, always going to look like this or bedtimes always going to look like that. And it's, that's just logically not the case, but it's really easy for me to, in terms of business, say, I'm always going to be struggling with this exact same problem. I'm always going to have to be doing this exact same thing. My day's always going to look like this or you know, whatever, whatever the conversation is that we're having.

Safa Harris:

conversations we have. And I'm like, Ashley,

Ashley Dreager:

So I know,

Safa Harris:

I'm like, we're having a conversation about the future. That's not a factor. That's not what I'm talking about. This makes, that gives me a lot of context.

Ashley Dreager:

so,

Safa Harris:

Cause

Ashley Dreager:

but it, I know.

Safa Harris:

with you?

Ashley Dreager:

It took me a really long time to realize that that is something that I struggle with, that, that's like a mindset issue that I have. And I, I, I accept it as an issue because it really holds me back. It like makes it really difficult for me to move forward with things. So, but it took a lot of work. and awareness and the self regulation to get to the point to be able to identify this. So it's easier for me now to identify when I'm having one of those episodes and kind of take a step back. And so that's why sometimes I'll say, if this comes up, we'll deal with that kind of thing. Like I'm kind of like talking myself through it. Um,

Safa Harris:

So I guess I have like two questions for you. So because, and like, I feel like you can only answer this now. Cause you know, um, do you feel like having that perspective and kind of being in that space keeps you from making some of those. on like the day to day because you feel like, well, what's like, what's the point, but like, will the payout be worth it if I sacrifice this in the moment? Because it's all going to stay the same. Like,

Ashley Dreager:

totally.

Safa Harris:

like giving up time with the kids or giving up gym time or whatever it's like that keeps you from making those sacrifices. Well,

Ashley Dreager:

it'll like, for example, the gym time thing. Cause I know that's been like a, that's a conversation that we have quite regularly, there was a point in the last few years where I would be making those sacrifices for the sake of the client's business, to make it easier for the client, to accommodate the client, to accommodate the business need in whatever the way is. And it didn't work out for me in the long run. And then,

Safa Harris:

your business though.

Ashley Dreager:

well, it's, yeah, it's not my business.

Safa Harris:

out for

Ashley Dreager:

Um, but then it's like, well, why should I make that sacrifice? Because it's never going to work out. It's always going to be unappreciated unseen. It's going to be a sacrifice that I don't particularly like making that doesn't have a payoff on the end. for what I'm expecting it to be, or what I would want the payoff to be relative to the sacrifice that it is for me in the moment.

Safa Harris:

I think that begs the conversation of There's like sacrifices you should make that are going to have that payoff, and then there's some sacrifices that shouldn't be making because they're not, this sounds a little bit selfish, but like, I'll give a little bit more context because they're not for you.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

I will sacrifice for my business and like, because our relationship is the way it is, like, I will make a sacrifice for you. And like your family, I for a client or something or like even like a job, I'm going to be a lot more discerning and firm on those boundaries of what I'm going to say yes or no. Because I know at the end of the day. They're not going to make that sacrifice for me. So

Ashley Dreager:

Well, and, yeah, definitely, let's, the, the boundary aspect has, I mean, that's a, That's a, that's a conversation that we have. But, um, to kind of tie this back to something that we talked about in last week's episode is that this, when it comes to making those sacrifices or identifying the options that you have available, they're not always going to specifically what you want, or maybe your ideal situation. But in this example with my gym time, I wanted to go to the gym every, every day that the gym daycare was open. So Monday through Saturday, that was my time because I otherwise with the being home with the kids, don't get that like quiet space the same way that I do when I'm at the gym. So it's kind of like two, two sides where. It's nice to have that break, but also I really personally value like fitness and health and wellness and keeping up with this routine. And so that was making it a challenge to accommodate business needs because of time zones, the amount of time, the before and after, you know, all of the, you know, there's, it's more than just, let me just run it out of the gym for 30 minutes. Um, But it took me a really long time to realize that there are other, maybe other programs that I could be following or other ways that I can get the same health benefits of these workouts without a two hour block in my day for it, right? Like there are other, specifically I follow, um, There's always an option. Um, I follow, Mind Pump is a group that I follow. They have a podcast, um, and I follow their workout routines. And they actually have a lot where it's only, you're only supposed to be, like, in the gym working out three days a week.

Safa Harris:

I've heard that. I've

Ashley Dreager:

if I

Safa Harris:

things. Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

follow that, like, structure very rigidly, I mean, that opens up half my week. It's a business stuff. Um, so I mean, there's a sacrifice still because I'm not getting that, like, break in the day. But the main outcome of wanting to stay on this regimen and the, you know, getting these health benefits, I can get to the same outcome differently. I just need to be able to adjust and shift my mindset to accommodate that. Thank you.

Safa Harris:

Yeah. I, I honestly feel like, just in the way I approach it, that is a lot about perspective and how you're looking at things versus like, Oh, this is so awful. I have to give this up. And then that causes resentment and all of those things, which causes issues in relationships and all of those things. And it's really a matter of. Perspective of what's going on. Why do you not want to give this up? Why is that important? Because I know for me, like gym time is an activity of like, also like self regulation

Ashley Dreager:

Mhm.

Safa Harris:

know when I, like, I can go for a little bit, like not going to the gym and just like through something, but I know that that is going to hurt me in like, my self regulation aspect. So I'm like, yeah, I can move that around or change it up or whatever for a certain amount of time, but I know that eventually I'm going to need to come back to that sooner because that is a self regulation activity for me.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

like for you as well.

Ashley Dreager:

Mhm.

Safa Harris:

it's all a balance, but it's really, really about how, how you also, you look at the sacrifice.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. When you look at, when you look at any situation as this is the only way to do it, that's where you really start to get boxed in. Because then you, you lose perspective and you lose the, the, the bigger picture of what all your options are. So, I mean, there's no one way. There's no one way to grow a business.

Safa Harris:

No,

Ashley Dreager:

no one way to do anything. Um, but if, when you take, when your mindset is, this is my only option.

Safa Harris:

it's a closed mindset with a

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. Yes. Yes, exactly. Close mindset versus open mindset, growth mindset. Um, but journaling has been really big for me in this, process, um, through self regulation it, when I have a very routine journaling practice, like it is like night and day when it comes to my ability to get through the day, process information, decision making, move through that situation permanence a lot faster,

Safa Harris:

That's what I

Ashley Dreager:

managing those emotions, um, all of that stuff. So that's been. That's really big. For me.

Safa Harris:

Yeah, I think, I feel like everything me always comes back to my perspective on every situation. And my perspective on the sacrifice or my perspective on the challenge or whatever is happening in the moment and that allows for a lot of resilience and perseverance is because it's perspective and it's mindset and all of those things and think this is part of, like, why I have an issue with, like, the mindset coaches where it's like, Oh, well, just change your mindset and it'll be, it'll be fine. Or like, Oh, you are just not making money because it's like a mind money mindset issue. And it's like, yes, that could be the case. But again, it's like that whole reductiveness of it of like, Oh, well, this is the only problem where. I think mindset comes in to a lot more of like your mental and physical ability to do the actions that you need to do versus like, just going to look at it differently,

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm. Heh heh.

Safa Harris:

um, like religiously that we say, and like in Urdu, it's like, it means like with prayer, with like supplication, you need medicine. And then in Arabic, it's like you tie up your camel. Um, so there, um. It's a, um, it's a Hadith that it was like a Bedouin came and talked to the prophet peace be upon him and was like, Hey, like I know I'm supposed to trust Allah and just like let him take care of things and I have my camel, should I just Leave my camel and he was like, no tie up your camel, but yes, trust Allah. But like also tie up your camel.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

so it's like, yes, I'm supposed to have this perspective that everything happens for a reason and that anything that happens to me, um, by the way of God, is good for me, even if I don't see it in this moment, because I don't understand his wisdom. it is also my job as a human on this earth to do my part.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

always me look at everything positively. Even if I'm like, well, we missed this payment or this. Like, I only got three hours of sleep whatever, it's, I know everything that happens to me is for my benefit, even though I don't see it right now and I just need to do my part and keep going.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah, keep going. I'm sure at some point when you look back at situations, things make a lot more sense or there's more gratitude, uh, for why things were the way they were at that moment. You know, that's, that's the case for me a lot of the times.

Safa Harris:

I can't think of an anecdote right now on like an example of it, but I know, like, there have been stuff that I'm like, this is, Just terrible and awful. Like, why did it happen or work out that way? And then two, three years down the line, something else will happen. I was like, you know what? It had to be this way. Something, well, actually I have like, kind of like a drastic one, which people are gonna be like you or cuckoo. So my dad, my dad died. Right. And it was sudden graphic. He was, uh, He was murdered. It wasn't anything we expected. I was still in college. Um, and all that happened, it was awful. And we were like, so like on the perspective of his death and the way it was, it's considered, he's considered a martyr in the way his death happened. And like, cause he was like working, providing for his family and like all of that kind of stuff. And we were like, Oh, well, like, uh, Allah wants good people back too. And like that his, it's like death is a blessing in that moment because it relieves this person from the trial of this life and world, whatever you see it positively. it's also like my dad said, I'm sad. Like, it's like, we are still It's great for him, but like, here we are, like whatever. And, um, it's like, It's like, oh, well, we're not meant to kind of understand the why, but if that hadn't happened, my mom would have never downsized her house and she never would have hired the company she did for the estate sale and the logistics of all of that for her. And I never would have met Darrell.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh, wow. Wow.

Safa Harris:

Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

And then that's like a whole other life path too.

Safa Harris:

Mm

Ashley Dreager:

Then. Yeah.

Safa Harris:

Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

The kids that you have.

Safa Harris:

exactly my kids wouldn't be. The kids, my kids.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Isn't that crazy to think about? Like with all of how things line up and fall into place

Safa Harris:

Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

that lead to other things. I try to explain this to Justin all the time and it's,

Safa Harris:

Everything

Ashley Dreager:

concept for him to. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Journaling

Safa Harris:

far as all this goes just to kind of wrap it up One it's going business is gonna be really hard It's going to dysregulate your nervous system and your emotions and it's going to make you make decisions and do things and take actions that May not be the best logical Decisions and actions, the thing to remember is that is having the self awareness that you're in those moments, so you don't make decisions that are necessarily detrimental for you, and then also aren't willing to do the hard thing, because it puts you in this state and makes you uncomfortable, so yes, when we're in it, we want to be aware, And regulate out of it, but we don't, we also don't want to avoid it that is going to bring things forth for you and which I think the examples we've shared of what happens when you do live through those dysregulation moments, um, Hopefully give some insight there. So, like, the idea is to remember, it's not bad. It will be hard. Get awareness and find the actions that work for you. To Regulate back down and when you are in the moment, finding tools and techniques that are going to help you stay grounded and persevere through it and also making still those logical decisions instead of the more emotional ones. And, um, just having that perspective and I think kind of the tips that we've shared of like how we dysregulate for me is like prayer and my faith and exercise and being active and kind of leaning into more of those things and finding releases that aren't. So that aren't like rash decisions, and then mindset and perspective. And then Ashley, for you, you have similar ones. I know you mentioned journaling. Are there any others?

Ashley Dreager:

is a big one. The gym is another big one being just the general health and wellness helps too. Manage things that come up, because if I'm not feeling good in my own body, it's really hard for me to put the energy into other external situations when I already feel like crap. If I'm tired, I'm not eating well, if I'm eating a lot more processed foods, it's just a lot harder. It dominoes with the kids, and then the business, and just personal. Existence, just having a human body. Um, so health, I think the triangle for like most people is like health, wellness, and spirituality, right? That's the three physical. It's like a triangle for me. I have to have all of those covered to, to be in an optimal state. Um, And usually when I'm getting dysregulated, it's because one of those three is starting to get neglected. So,

Safa Harris:

fair to say. So finding in each of those to keep going. So

Ashley Dreager:

yeah.

Safa Harris:

be aware, don't avoid it. Find tools and techniques to get through it.

Outro:

And that wraps up another episode of the business millennials podcast. We hope you found this conversation, thought provoking, inspirational, and helps you make a larger impact with your business. Growth is not just about profits or revenue. It's a journey of personal development, contribution, and bettering ourselves in society. Our challenge for you take at least one key lesson from our time together today that you can apply not just to your business. But your relationships, creative expression, wellbeing, and personal evolution to, we appreciate you tuning in. If you enjoyed this show, we invite you to pay it forward, share it with an entrepreneur, creative student, or community leader who needs an infusion of insight or inspiration right now. And make sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. So you never miss a single episode. And if you like what you heard, leave us a five star review. See you next week.