The Business Millennials Podcast

2.6 [Part 1] Self Regulation As A Business Owner

• Ashley Dreager and Safa Harris • Season 2 • Episode 6

Share episode

In this episode of the Business Millennials Podcast, hosts Safa Harris and Ashley Dreager dive into a deep discussion about self-regulation and mental health in business. They explore the challenges of maintaining balance, making decisions under stress, and the importance of having sustainable practices to avoid burnout. This episode is part one of a two-part series on the topic.

Key Takeaways:
1. Self-regulation is crucial for making sound business decisions and avoiding emotionally-driven choices.
2. Recognizing signs of dysregulation, such as physical sensations and overwhelming thoughts, is important for business owners.
3. There's a delicate balance between pushing through challenges and knowing when to step back for mental health reasons.
4. Having a long-term perspective and resilience is essential for business success, as most challenges are temporary.
5. Personal faith and belief systems can play a significant role in self-regulation and perseverance.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to the topic of self-regulation in business
05:30 The importance of self-regulation for decision-making
10:15 Identifying signs of dysregulation
15:45 Balancing business challenges with mental health
22:30 Personal experiences with business resilience
28:00 The role of faith in self-regulation
32:45 Long-term benefits of entrepreneurship for families

Is your business just not the vibe right now and you can't seem to get it going, even though you feel like you're doing #AllTheThings? Fill out the linked audit form to give us the inside scoop on your current situation, challenges, and goals. That way we can spot your strengths, opportunities, and outline next steps, keeping a sustainable & scalable business in mind.

Free Audit:
https://scaleandthriveco.com/strategy-assessment/

Episode link & contact info

Shareable Podcast link
Leave Us a Voice Note
Email: scaleandthriveco@gmail.com
Follow us on Instagram:
@ashleydreager
@itssafaharris
Check out the Shop

Intro:

Welcome to the business millennials podcast. This show brings you strategic insights through raw and unfiltered real world advice to accelerate your business growth for longterm success. I'm Safa Harris, and I'm Ashley Drager. We're the founders of scale and thrive co a full service marketing and business development firm, helping visionary companies scale sustainably. Expect us to have the uncomfortable conversations that no one else is having. We'll break down what it really takes to grow and scale your business beyond six As well, as inspiring interviews with diverse leaders across marketing, product development, sales, and more. Be a fly on the wall, as we conduct strategy sessions with business owners experiencing issues such as plateaued income, burnout, and generally dropping the ball giving you the tools and resources to break through your own roadblocks, but also personal development methods to grow you as a balanced, conscious leader amidst business growth. Let's jump into this week's episode.

Ashley Dreager:

Okay. So we ended up having a really long conversation around. Mental health and business and self regulation. So this is going to be part one of our conversation. Uh, so we're going to go into more of the background, give you some context, some personal insights and experiences. And then in next week's episode, we are going to cover part two to give you a little bit more of a tangible how to what we do and all of those things in actually self regulating for Long term success and sustainability in business. hit record and I was, my mind just went blank. I was like, okay, so

Safa Harris:

I can tell with

Ashley Dreager:

are we talking,

Safa Harris:

you're like words don't exist.

Ashley Dreager:

there's no thoughts going at all. Um, so self regulation is going to be the topic of today's episode. And, I think it'll be a really interesting conversation because in a lot of ways, you and I are very similar in what we do to self regulate or like what we need, at least on like a core level.

Safa Harris:

say in our anxieties.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh. That too. That too. Um, but I think it'll just be a really interesting conversation based on what we typically hear and see as far as messaging goes in the online space, as far as how easy it is to make money and really leaving out a lot of the back end of what it takes and the parts that people don't usually talk about. When it comes to growing, building, starting, managing a business. And

Safa Harris:

Oh, you can make money. So easily, you can do it with kids at home, you like work three hours a day, would do, I'm a millionaire now, and I was homeless, that stuff, like it's really easy to make money online. And then there's the other side of it. It's like, oh, well, you have to do all this marketing, you have to do all of this operation stuff, you need your systems, you have to do all of these things for running a business, your finances, And that's us that talk about the, the non sexy part, the doom and gloom. But lot of that brings this emotional, like, mental side of it. I think mindset is talked about a lot, but I also have, an issue with like mindset messaging that's online, but I think kind of what we're hitting at here a little bit more is about, yeah, it's hard. Yes, you're going to be exhausted. Yes, it's going to like wear you out and you have to balance the burnout, but there's also like almost mental gymnastics to keep in the game. to keep going because it's everything about business is against our like, natural instincts to like, stick it out, keep going, doing all of those things. And you have to be. So good at a varied number of things, especially until you're able to get to a point where you can blindly almost hire and trust experts in all of these different areas, because you have to be good at like operations. You have to be good at marketing. You have to be good at sales for you to have a successful business. And especially when you're doing it at first, like that's all on you or your business, not going to get off the ground. you're not going to get anything coming in. So having all of that on you, having to figure all of that out, deal with the risk that it takes, especially when you don't have any backup and this is your baseline and working against those natural self preservation techniques on top of just being like exhausted of doing it all, it causes a lot of like other Issues with like, oh, your team management or your pricing or how you're choosing to run your business or the decisions you're making That will have an impact on the sustainability of your business And I think that part of it's often left out because it'll often be left at, Oh, the reason you're not making sales is because you have a money mindset issue. It's like, is it that or are you biologically? fighting against yourself and like letting anxieties and like very real things Come in and work against you that's making things harder Or are you not willing to put yourself in like a psychologically uncomfortable space? to grow and move through that like live through those anxieties to have a sustainable business in the future. And it all very dysregulating to your nervous system. I

Ashley Dreager:

you add in,

Safa Harris:

kind of a hefty conversation.

Ashley Dreager:

it is because just, I mean, I, I think it's just the same as all of the rest of the, our philosophy around business is that there's so many variables and there's so many, if this, then this. Decision tree flow chart stuff that comes into it. Um, and I would love to hear more about your opinions and thoughts on the mindset stuff in this, in the online space. Cause I think that there's, that's probably a whole topic that we can unpack in and of itself. But yeah, I mean, just, I know we've touched on this a little bit in past episodes, but adding in being a parent. in business. Being a parent of younger kids is, it adds a whole other layer of complexity to the entire thing.

Safa Harris:

and like the emotional part of it, because it's like, you have to do some risky things in business, but then you're also like, I need to be able to feed these kids and keep a roof over their heads. And that's That's huge. Like, and as parents, we'll literally do for them, but we're also doing this, doing business and doing these risky things for them.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Safa Harris:

a whole, and pull against the self preservation, taking care of our children. Like, being long view minded

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

all of that. So, I don't know, what kind of angle do we want to start on this There's just so much.

Ashley Dreager:

I, I think covering the why this is so important

Safa Harris:

Uh.

Ashley Dreager:

I think would be a good starting place. Um, Because I think a lot of people listening are probably going to be able to under like identify the challenges that they're already experiencing, like what the day to day looks like. I mean, we could, we could probably cover those if we want, but I'll probably go into a tangent specifically on the kids stuff because it is really hard, especially if you're not like in the like actively in like an awareness state. or being able to address what you are observing through that awareness.

Safa Harris:

Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

it's, kids are triggering.

Safa Harris:

Triggering, kids are triggering, especially when they're like, like you.

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

really, it's like, Wally's me and Zed's Daryl and it's just like, Wally gets to me. Cause I'm like, and he's like, and Daryl would be like, he's your twin, that's why. So the kid that bothers you the most, that's who you are. If you want to know what your personality type is like.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh my gosh, both of them right now are like, pushing my buttons in different ways. I'm just like,

Safa Harris:

It's just your personality coming

Ashley Dreager:

go be at your grandma's for a week. That's what I want to say sometimes.

Safa Harris:

So, the why you need to self regulate. Because you're going to make bad decisions. You're going to make emotional, right now, decisions. Like I just need to fix this and feel comfortable decisions versus the decisions, the hard decisions that are going to put me in a better place later. And it's kind of a balance on those decisions too. It's like, okay, well, what. Like, what is the smart decision for the longterm and how do I balance that with like pure human, like, Living in America, capitalistic survival decisions, um, and balancing that. But if you are going to be in a state of just like pure anxiety and letting that be the driving factor in your decisions versus like reality and facts and data and things like that, you will not be able to. of pull back, look at everything, and make the right decision that balances both. Because your emotions are going to overtake you. Like, that's just, that is what's going to happen. If you're exhausted and tired, so you're going to be like, I need to hire, I need to hire that someone's going to take All of this over and I need them to take it all over now and I don't care what I have to pay for it. But then you don't look at your budget. You don't look at your profit margins. What's going to happen six weeks from now? Or if you're like, oh, I need to make money right now. I don't care. care kind of what this person's paying or I don't care if this isn't essentially what I want to be doing, whatever. It's like, okay, like, is this like a short term project? Are you taking on a retainer? Are you losing money on this because you are tapped out and can't do all of these things? Like, if you're making decisions based on that, are you you're not going to do something that's actually good for you. It might be all right. It might put you, it might regulate you for your nervous system to get to a good place, but you're gonna get like all messed up again when you hit another roadblock because you're not proactively looking into the future. Because that's like the thing about business is like you can't be looking at the fire right now. You

Ashley Dreager:

Right.

Safa Harris:

the fire that's like five miles away and then figure out, Oh, is this fire a real fire that's in front of me right now? Or is this something that I just need to walk through

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

and like figure out a way to survive through it and

Ashley Dreager:

I was going to say the, the thing that I think is going to be really important and a big takeaway here is that the idea and the concept that we're presenting with self regulation is that it's best to have this as a normal practice in your day to day so that you don't get to the point of complete dysregulation and then you're running around putting all of these, all of these quote fires out that maybe not even really need to be seen as fires. They're just normal business challenges that you're not in a state of being able to manage. The most effectively.

Safa Harris:

and I think at least for me the biggest part is Knowing like I am in a space right now that I cannot make decisions Based on what I think I cannot make decisions about how With the way I feel or like the vibe something is giving and just like on intuition because I know I am in a stressed out place. I know I am in a dysregulated space that I need to lean on the numbers right now. Like the

Ashley Dreager:

hmm.

Safa Harris:

need to tell me if this is a good decision or a bad decision because I do not have that mental capacity at the moment or that can do. And realizing that has is going to be the biggest. Thing of like, knowing this is a moment that my gut or my instinct or whatever is there or is this a moment where I'm freaking out and my anxieties have taken over and I need to just have the numbers tell me if this is the right thing or not. And then, so that's one aspect of it, of having that self awareness, but then also being like, okay, well, I'm dysregulated. I'm going to lean on the data for, to help me with my decisions, but then how do I also, what actions do I take to Get through this moment and either bring my nervous system down to regulate or get to a point where I'm like Functioning through it better

Ashley Dreager:

So when, how do you identify when you're getting to that dysregulated state? Like what are some of the signs or indications that it's time for you to take a step back and maybe do some regulating work?

Safa Harris:

Regulating work. Yeah I think for me It's I can feel it like I can feel like I can feel it in my eyes like and Yeah, like I feel I feel it like right here and like the my sockets. Yeah. I

Ashley Dreager:

totally, I did not expect that

Safa Harris:

Yeah, no because it's Some people will be like, oh yeah, I can feel it like right here or anything like that. And for me, it's very like up here. Like it's my upper body. Yeah. And it gets to a point where I'm just like, it's racing thoughts. It's a lot of like, oh my God, I, I, There's just so it's a feeling of overwhelm of like, oh my god, how am I? Moving through this like how am I going to do all of this and it's the exhaustion Like I said in my I can feel the exhaustion in my eyes where i'm like, this is too much I can't handle it. I'm like feeling the pressure like in my physical body yeah, and i'm if we're faced with a decision or something like that and I'm like, I physically cannot, like, I can't deal with this. When it's, when I start doing like the I can'ts, like, I don't know how to deal or whatever. I'm like, this is a moment where if I just go and let my emotions take Ahead of it, I'll just be like, I quit. I'm done. I can't do this anymore.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm, mm hmm. The throw in the towel stuff.

Safa Harris:

Yeah, exactly. It's like this is too much for me to handle Like i'm running out of bandwidth That is when i'm like, okay, and then I also get like I get short and snappy and i'm just like, oh my god, like The the capacity is starting to run out. I'm like I need to spend time and regulate and there's also like there's a balance there too, right? Because it's like, okay, at what point is it like you shouldn't keep going through this? that what point is it that you need to regulate and move through and go through it? that's been something that I, I don't know if I have the right. Answer to because I also believe that this life isn't meant to be easy. This life is a test. It is all very hard. We're not meant to have everything and. I also know things worth having and doing do put you through trial and are hard. And yes, mental health is important and preserving it and taking care of it is important, but there are ways for you to do that and not necessarily, well, I'm just not going to do that because it's affecting, because our business affects our mental health. I think we can agree to that 100%, at what point is it, it's impacting my mental health too much, and this isn't for me, and it's not good, I need to find another solution versus this is actually what's going to be good for my mental health. In the long run and this is what I do need to do and I just need to get through this trial

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

and what is the test for me in the moment

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. Yeah. I've seen a lot of questions come up on social media lately about how do you know when enough is enough and it's time to just close it down. I know it's a hard question to answer because it's It, it depends. I don't

Safa Harris:

like I like even if I think about it for like you and I and our business and things like that. I don't know if I could say. When is enough is enough, you know,

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah.

Safa Harris:

we haven't seen hard times like our business isn't and because it's business, but how do you know when enough is enough or if you just get through this and figure it out? Because we've gone through a moment of like, If this doesn't get sorted out, figured out, I don't know if we can keep going. we were like, we got weeks left and it was just through that moment. If we had thrown it, thrown out, thrown out the towel, like weeks like we wouldn't have, we wouldn't have seen the reward.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

And that's what I think about a lot. It's like, if I had thrown it, thrown in the towel, when I had thought about throwing it in the towel, what have I seen this win?

Ashley Dreager:

Yeah. Yeah.

Safa Harris:

have gotten that. So also, it's, it's hard. I don't know.

Ashley Dreager:

I think, and this is probably going off in a little bit of a different direction than specifically self regulation, but I want to touch on the, like, when is enough. Like, when do you, throw in the towel completely. And I know it's something that I've thought a lot about over the years, even before the agency started, because there have been many times where I've questioned, is this worth, is this going to be worth it in what it's costing me as a parent or what it's costing me with my kids today? And it's been, it's something that I've gone back and forth on a lot. Um, for me, it's just like a weird, it's just a knowing, like internal knowing that the alternative options just, that's not what, that's not what I want my life to look like. That's not how I want to live. Like I just know, so it's probably going to depend person to person, how you know what the right answer and the right decision is for you. Um, but something that I thought about when you were When you were talking was the, that graphic where somebody, it's like two minors, like digger minors. Right.

Safa Harris:

Oh, okay.

Ashley Dreager:

and they're like,

Safa Harris:

children.

Ashley Dreager:

I thought that that might be a little confusing. Um, and they're like chopping away at the rocks for like the gold or this, the diamond. And one person gets that far. Away on the other side of the rock, like he just needed to swing one more time And he's gonna get it but decides to turn around and the other guy keeps pushing forward And he's like right there um So I know there's like a macklemore lyric. I really want to reference but I can't remember how it goes exactly too But it's like it goes something like the night is the darkest right before the start the sun starts to come up

Safa Harris:

yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

um because

Safa Harris:

It's darkest before the dawn is that, that proverb. Yeah.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's like you said, business is hard. Um, the statistic is that most businesses fail within 10 years. So, I mean, think about how many trials and tribulations and challenges are going to come up over a 10 year span. I mean, think about just the last 10 years of your life personally, like not even specifically in business or career, but just all the stuff that can come up. So, yeah, resilience is. It's huge if you're in this for the long run. I love you.

Safa Harris:

had jobs. then there's like a few of us that are more business oriented and Just looking at our parents, they had businesses. That's what they did to raise us. It afforded them the opportunity to immigrate and then immigrate back and it came with problems and all of those things. But. All of them were able to, and I'm not saying it was easy, they were able to put things in place to be able to help and take care of us, then, and then also support us. So it gave them the opportunity to invest in situations that let them pay for college, that let them help with, hey, money's tight. Let's, can do X, Y, Z, and like the investments and the things that I have going on because they've gotten out of the point of like for, they're old now. They're like, hey, we don't have any bills. We're like chilling, but we have we've we've bought gold We've bought properties like we can adjust make these adjustments and help you guys out or like we can pay for a wedding we can XYZ so like while they're raising us they were busting their butts and they were doing all of those things and It was always heavier on one parent than the other in, um, never at the both time at the same time. I think they like, and this isn't just like my parents is even looking at my aunts and uncles. Um, it was always heavier on one parent than the other at any given moment. I don't. I at least don't have any recollection of it ever being, like, they're both, like, gone. Like, they were both always working and doing things, but there was always one that you remember being around more for moments than others. And I think that was just probably what they worked out between them and, like, a trade off of being, like, and wife. and that afforded them to let, like, With opportunity while they were raising us, even though it was really hard in those moments, and then I think the payoff was even more in our future. Once we were older, because it allowed for college that it didn't put that on us. It allowed for them to subsidize. living that allowed for us as children to save, you know, and it allowed for the ease of building up like our personal foundations like if you're Going through law school or whatever and your dad's paying your rent you're Don't have a student loan or you do have a student loan or you get a job, you're able to save all of that up and then once you get a job, you're in a better position and I think that's so, so important with how we're looking at things happening today and just looking at the people in my life that do have jobs, they're able to work, they're able to pay their bills and they're able to, you know, Possibly say for their own retirement and they may or may not have a house of their own. So now are they going to be able to help their children have that same financial foundation as like a springboard going into their retirement? Adult years, because I think this is like, we can talk about this balance in a second, but it's like, well, they have that springboard and will you be able to help them? Or are you going to be in a place where, well, we got to figure out a way to pay for college. and find that money. And then like, if we do that, we may not be able to help with like, not saying that this is like an important expense, but like, it's a big deal. It's like, or pay for a wedding or help with like a house down payment or help you have investments in place where you can stack income and do all of those things, because if it's not our parents, who is going to do it for us? You know, and I think there's a balance between yes. Childhood is important. Um, yes, these are like very critical moments of like their development, their personalities, like, like I know the conversation around like childhood trauma is huge right now, and all of those things, their adult lives. Are much harder and much, much longer. while, yes, I look back at my childhood and I'm like, man, my mom was kind of strict or like that kind of sucked. But as I've grown, I've had more of an appreciation for, I understand what they were doing. In that moment and what was going on and what that's afforded me now and like being able to have that seeing and knowing and understanding so I get to appreciate that and like I didn't have the worst childhood like they were good parents and everybody has the thing it's like oh well they yelled at me that one time and like I have immigrant parents they weren't gentle parenting like it's like you either get an A or you get like whooped like It is. Like, and it was fine. And looking back, I'm like, they made that huge sacrifice. Who'd they make it for?

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

And now they've able to put us and our siblings and my cousins and all of those things in a better foundational position for our adult lives, which are much, much longer. I don't

Ashley Dreager:

Well, and having that foundation going into your adult life probably also gives you the tools and resources to be able to address anything that needs to be addressed or I don't want to say fixed, like there's something wrong or broken, but if there's something that maybe didn't turn out the way that you wanted or that you're happy with, that you have the ability to do that because of how they set you up. Yeah.

Safa Harris:

Oh, for sure. For sure. Because even if it's like a moment of like, oh, I didn't use my degree or my college degree or anything, that afforded me a lot of knowledge that I didn't know. And then even like financially, like going in, being like. If I did, especially when like you're younger or whatever and you're getting that first job and whatever and like someone treats you like crap, you're like, I have a safety net that's either in the form of like savings or my parents are in a good enough position that I'm not a burden if I need help.

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

And again, it comes into like, oh, well, They were able to have successful businesses, but just like background of my dad. So when he got married to my mom, my dad, my grandfather was a huge businessman in Pakistan. Um, so when they got married, my grandfather actually helped my dad. And so my dad was doing, he had like a job and like doing a couple of different things. And my grandfather was like, okay, like, cool. You're married my daughter. Like, I'm going to help you get set up. So he like trained him, whatever, set him up with working, um, like internationally doing like import export stuff, whatever. It did that work for a little while. They were able to save up, like get how to get a house, everything like that. And then they were able to that nest egg and then, um, Come to the U S they went other places. They were in like Hong Kong and England and all of this kind of stuff. And then they came to the U S and then they were looking for business. They had no idea what they were going to do to make money. When they came to the U S they had money to invest and that's how they came. They came on an investment visa. Um, so you have to invest an X amount of dollars into the U S economy, and then you get a visa for your business. Then that's like a whole nother thing on like all immigration is taking away from the U. S. economy. Literally paying to be here. But, um, so they were like, okay, well, what are we going to invest in? And it was like, he looked at, like, farms. You almost, like, um, did like, uh, some Tyson chicken franchise farm situation.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh, seriously?

Safa Harris:

mm hmm.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh, crazy.

Safa Harris:

Yeah. Um, and then They eventually landed on like having convenience stores and commercial real estate and things like that, but there was a point where I was already born and, um, obviously my brother and sister were, you know, We're here and they had a house and everything like that. And I don't remember, I don't know the specifics of what the financial downfall was, but my grant, my dad had to leave us here to go back to Sri Lanka and do some different import export work and what he was doing here because they financially needed the money to keep going. And get through it and for them. Oh, it's not like an option. So I feel like that's like the moment of like, okay Well, i'm temporarily gonna do a job or i'm temporarily going to do this But your long game is on like I am setting this up for something Bigger in the long run even though it sucks in this moment, and I have to go to colombo and leave

Ashley Dreager:

Mm hmm.

Safa Harris:

kids and my wife and do all those things so this the story and the idea of like Oh, my parents were able to get themselves in a good enough position that they're able to help out with these things and give adult children these good foundations and things like that. It wasn't that, oh, well, they got lucky or they, you know, They happen to have a successful business Whatever they went through all of the stuff that we're going to to build our businesses and losing the money and like having Like the stress of not not knowing how you're going to pay your bills because I was talking to my mom like she's like I know how it feels She's like you don't sleep at night because you're like, I don't know how this mortgage is going to get paid But there's always an answer It's always an answer. And I think for us, our faith is huge too, because we're always like, well, like the money's not mine. Allah's going to pay for it somehow. Like he pays my bills and I just do what I'm supposed to do and like keep moving. And they're one way or another, it's going to get paid. So I think that helps us a lot with our resilience and perseverance. But it's, is always Always an answer and it might not be what you think it's going to be. And like my faith is like one of my huge things that helps me regulate down because I will just go and I will pray and I will just like sit on my prayer rug and I will just cry and then it's like on instantly it's like after that I'm like, okay, I feel a lot better because I don't I think the crying thing has to do something with me not be feeling it in my eyes.

Ashley Dreager:

Oh, yeah, okay, I could see that. That could, yeah, that's a good connection. Yeah,

Safa Harris:

I think it's because Daryl's a business owner and obviously as am I, and I think that's something we always, okay, we're paying the bills for now and we're getting through this and we're going through these struggles and it might not be the perfect environment of like, I am a hundred percent always plugged in with the kids. I am, we are doing all the fun activities and like we have negative 10 hours of screen times a day. It's not, it's not. It's not always perfect, but I do know if we stick it out and get through it one They're definitely seeing a lot more of me than when I was working a job I definitely know more about them as people And their personalities than if I wasn't with them all day Am I juggling a lot of things that it does? Does it get stressful all of that? Yeah, but everything's a trade off. You're never gonna have everything life and then if it's gonna put me in a position to be able to do Do more for them in the future and have more access to like solutions and things to help them with, I'm totally going to, going to do that. And I think the other side can argue, Oh, it's like, Oh, well, it's not as stable. You don't know if it's going to work out like that, but I don't know. I just, there's always, there's always a way it's always

Ashley Dreager:

yeah,

Safa Harris:

And I don't think that's always the case when you're working for someone else.

Ashley Dreager:

yeah.

Outro:

And that wraps up another episode of the business millennials podcast. We hope you found this conversation, thought provoking, inspirational, and helps you make a larger impact with your business. Growth is not just about profits or revenue. It's a journey of personal development, contribution, and bettering ourselves in society. Our challenge for you take at least one key lesson from our time together today that you can apply not just to your business. But your relationships, creative expression, wellbeing, and personal evolution to, we appreciate you tuning in. If you enjoyed this show, we invite you to pay it forward, share it with an entrepreneur, creative student, or community leader who needs an infusion of insight or inspiration right now. And make sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. So you never miss a single episode. And if you like what you heard, leave us a five star review. See you next week.