The Business Millennials Podcast

Which is More Important- Marketing Strategy or Business Strategy?

• Ashley Dreager

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This episode delves into the challenges and implications of marketing strategies and operations within Facebook groups and businesses. It highlights the restrictive nature of Facebook group rules and the limitations they place on conversations, negatively impacting user engagement and information exchange. The discussion transitions to a broader analysis of business strategies, marketing, and operational efficiency. It emphasizes the necessity for clear business objectives, strategic alignment across departments, and the role of marketing not just in lead generation but in setting accurate customer expectations and supporting the delivery process. The conversation underscores the importance of transparency, open communication, and alignment between marketing and operations to ensure a seamless customer experience, customer retention, and long-term business success. The dialogue also touches upon the role of KPIs in identifying operational inefficiencies and the negative impact of marketing promises not supported by operational capabilities, illustrating with examples like Prime Bites. Overall, the script champions a holistic approach to business strategy, where marketing and operations are closely coordinated to achieve sustainable growth and customer satisfaction.

Key Topics

00:00 The Frustrations of Facebook Group Restrictions
02:09 Seeking Genuine Advice in Over-Regulated Groups
02:59 The Importance of Real Conversations and Specific Solutions
05:10 Navigating the Challenges of Post Approval in Groups
07:04 The Evolution of Facebook Groups and User Control
08:40 The Intersection of Business Strategy and Marketing
11:49 Understanding the Core of Your Business Before Marketing
16:02 The Critical Role of Operations in Fulfilling Marketing Promises
18:40 The Long-Term Impact of Customer Experience on Business Success
20:26 The Impact of Misaligned Marketing and Operations
21:01 Exploring the Root Causes of Marketing Challenges
21:16 The Crucial Role of Alignment in Business Success
22:21 Operations and Marketing: A Vital Partnership
25:19 The Power of Effective Communication and KPIs
27:31 A Real-World Example: Prime Bytes' Success Story
36:11 The Importance of Transparency and Open Communication
39:39 The Vision for a Unified Operations and Marketing Strategy

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Welcome to the business millennials podcast. This show brings you strategic insights through raw and unfiltered real world advice to accelerate your business growth for longterm success. I'm Safa Harris and I'm Ashley Drager. We're the founders of scale and thrive co a full service marketing and business development firm, helping visionary companies scale sustainably. Expect us to have the uncomfortable conversations that no one else is having. We'll break down what it really takes to grow and scale your business beyond six. Seven or even eight figures, as well as inspiring interviews with diverse leaders across marketing, product development, sales, and more via fly on the wall as we conduct strategy sessions with business owners, experiencing issues such as plateaued income, burnout, and generally dropping the ball, giving you the tools and resources to break through your own roadblocks, but also personal development methods to grow you as a balanced conscious leader amidst business growth. Let's jump into this week's episode.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Facebook groups aren't giving, putting too many rules around what you can

Track 1:

Oh my gosh.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

and it's hurting how you can create a conversation around things when you're asking a genuine question about, I need more details and I wanna

Track 1:

Cool.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

around X, Y, Z tool, or X, Y, Z, whatever. It's like, oh well. No, that doesn't apply to the rules. Like we already have that information in X, Y, Z area. It's like, yeah, but that's not exactly what I'm looking for. I'm looking to have conversation right now recently with people, and the groups are limiting that connection with people and that's going to hurt Facebook groups.

Track 1:

Oh, for sure. I'm, I didn't join a Facebook group to do my own research and go through basically a course about stuff that is completely irrelevant to me. And that's basically what happens when you decline posts, when you're monitoring and filtering the content and the conversation so heavily because you've pinned. A similar question somewhere else

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

I get like, oh yeah, this post doesn't fit the theme of the group, or this is soliciting, or this is. Overcrowding with job posts, all of that kind of stuff. I get that, when someone's posting that very well could cause engagement for your group, and you're going to limit it because it's like, oh, it's already answered here, X, Y, Z. You don't know if conversation this person's looking for is one either answered in that post already and I get. wanting to overcrowd things with the same question over and over and over again. But it's also, again, marketing evolves so much. things need to be updated and changed. And it's like this person might, maybe they did go look and do all of those things and they're not getting the information they're looking for, and hopefully this is gonna cause conversation and engagement like, and now you're limiting that in your group. I think there has to be a balance between keeping an organized, clean, effective, and not really killing your group because you're the conversation so much.

Track 1:

Yeah. So for context what started this conversation between us was I had posted or attempted to post in a group. Asking for feedback about a specific tool or a specific platform that I was looking to invest in. And I had already done my research. I already searched the group under this specific topic and really, you know, without doing hours of research, because that's unnecessary in a free group, in my opinion. They really, the extent of the responses around similar questions was just the name of the platform that was being recommended, and I don't need to know what platforms are out there. I want to know why people are recommending the specific platform that they're recommending. Right. I know, I'm sure that you can, people can relate to this in a variety of different topics, but when you're first getting into a specific. Topic or you're just starting to learn about something, it can be really overwhelming to analyze all of your options out there. And of course. When you're looking at that business's website of their features and their pricing and their plans, they're making everything seem important. They're making everything seem like, well, you need to be paying for this. And I'm like, okay, but does that really pertain to me? Right. I mean, Kajabi is a, a really popular pop. This wasn't about Kajabi, but this is really popular one that seems to come up of, you know, Kajabi seems to have everything, but it's so expensive. Do I need it? Oftentimes the answer,

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

ops

Track 1:

is no.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

You probably don't need Kajabi. Like just send me a dm. I'll tell you what platform you need. If you're looking at Kajabi.

Track 1:

Right? But it's, you know, when you're, when you don't know any better, kajabi's making it seem like this is the best option out there for you. Right. And it's a spendy platform. To acquire for your business and if you don't really need it right, that that's really what I was looking for, right? I don't need to know what platforms are out there. I wanna know why you think that the one that you're recommending is the best.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yeah, it's like this real conversation about one, you wanna know the pros and cons, and two, does it apply for your specific problem that you're looking it? Does it solve the one specific problem you're looking for? Like you want anecdotes and situational responses that you're not gonna get from their website and you're not gonna get it from other posts because one, it's the situation right now currently that and your very specific problem and solution that you're looking for, and does it fit what you need? And you need to know and connect with other people that have used it to solve a similar problem. And if it worked out, if it didn't work out, or if they found a different solution that worked better. also then it's also gonna help other people that are looking to solve a similar, specific problem. It's, this is not generalities, this is looking for very specific answers and questions.

Track 1:

Yeah, I just have to say I, it drives me nuts when post-approval is on. I get the purpose of them, and there's people that really abuse. Facebook groups, but as someone that just wants to have a conversation, it really sucks. To submit a post and have it go into post approval because nine times outta 10, my post gets approved at a time where I'm not on, I'm not on social media. I'm not like in a head space to have that type of conversation again, I need to reset myself up for, okay, let's go into this. Pay attention to the responses, have the conversation when that's something that I wanted to do eight hours ago or four days ago. Right? I got posted in the queue for a really long time.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

yeah, sometimes it takes a really long time to do it and sometimes you're like so far past that problem. Like, oh,

Track 1:

Yeah.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

is like irrelevant now. Or it's like, oh, well I had to make a decision and move

Track 1:

Yeah.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

it would've been nice for me to have this information before I did it because it's really hard. I think particularly a lot of times people go to Facebook groups is for advice and suggestions while they're trying to make a decision. And it, it's one piece in the spoke of like making data-driven decisions if like getting this information and really being able to. And make a decision without being, I guess, influenced by like what, and making the distinction, like what is marketing and what is, what is the actual solution?

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

know? Because a lot of times it's like, oh well, like yeah, this website's telling me all these things, but this, I know, especially'cause I'm in marketing, I know this is marketing, so is

Track 1:

Yeah,

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

gonna give me what I need? Like I need to know.

Track 1:

Or am I gonna spend five hours going through the setup process and learning the platform to realize that I still have the same problem that I did before I spent the money and.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

or it solves the problem and then it creates a problem that you didn't have.

Track 1:

Totally. Totally. Yeah. I think I think that Facebook groups are, they've evolved so much understandably. I mean, it's so much about marketing has evolved and the way that we use social media has evolved. But I think that unfortunately a lot of Facebook group owners really sit on a high horse of just how much control they have over a large group of people.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

No,

Track 1:

really annoying to me. It's really annoying. I get, I mean, we've, I got banned from a group because I, I'm assuming, I don't actually know because I suddenly just couldn't access my comment or that post anymore and can't find the group. But the last thing that I did in there was. I pitched my services just the same that the other 60 people had done on that post, and I'm, I got banned so I don't, whatever.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

honestly, knowing you, I find this fact like freaking hilarious.'cause that one, we're not gonna share which group it is, but that one specific group is wild. Wild with what people do and you're such a rule follower, which to me it's like, how did you get kicked out?

Track 1:

It's just so, and like if I, I'm sure that there are arguments that can be made on the other side of this, but if somebody pitching their services in. A Facebook group is so threatening to you. There's probably other things that we need to sort out or that you should sort out, I should say, like you, you are the one that created the group for businesses.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Which I think that leads us really well into our conversation today about business strategy and marketing strategy and how you're making sure it all fits together and how you're using your group

Track 1:

Yeah.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

help all of that. So let's dig in.

Track 1:

Yeah, I, it's perfect segue.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

So I think a lot of. People and business owners will go in and say, I need a marketing strategy. And it needs to be like, that's the most important part of my business, and that's how I'm gonna make money is my marketing strategy. If something's not working, it's, I need to do more marketing. I need to make more money. Like s marketing is always like the most visible problem. To people and think it's the most visible solution, and that's not always the case. We've talked about this and how it should be more like fitting into your business as well. Better. So for one, Ashley, for a director of marketing perspective does that one not work, make your life harder? Like why is that? Not, like not just focusing on your marketing strategy. Why is that important?

Track 1:

Yeah. I think oftentimes when I'm seeing conversations coming up in social media when we're talking to potential clients, I. The, like you said, marketing is the, the most visible problem, and most everyone relates to a lack of sales or lack of revenue as a marketing issue. And yes, marketing is definitely a part of it, right? If people don't know about you or your products, how are they gonna buy it? Right? So that's, it's definitely a variable, but. Whenever we're digging into it, whenever we're onboarding a client or digging into those foundational pieces to develop a marketing strategy, we often find other issues within the business that are causing the marketing to be ineffective. For the majority of the time, it's not that the marketing. Is poor marketing. It's that there's lack of clarity around who you're trying to target. There's lack of clarity around the unique value proposition of your product or service. There's lack of clarity around how to position your content in front of your target market to generate interest. There's other, other areas that relate to the marketing strategy. Yes, your target market. Your unique value proposition and the content positioning are key elements of a marketing strategy, but they are not the strategy. The strategy is how you are taking that information and communicating it. It's that channel that the bridge of, this is what the business is about, this is who's gonna be buying it, how are you gonna connect the two? Right. The strategy is the connection point. It's the. The doing all of the actions, but we need to have all of these pieces figured out before we can take action on it. Right? I mean, it's really, those are really core parts of your, I mean, maybe not the content positioning specifically, but what you're selling, who you're trying to be selling it to, those are core business. Pieces that need to be decided before you can come to marketing.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

I think a point that kind of gets. Gets lost there. That like, I think there's a twofold point here. One, your business strategy is gonna, what is your mission? What is your vision? Who are your target customers? Like whose problem are you solving? Like how is what your business is, what your solution is? How is that different than the market? What are you really solving? What are you really trying to do with your business? What is your vision like? Where is your business? where does it stand currently?

Track 1:

Because if you were going to try to get an investor or someone else to put money into your business, they wanna know that your business is gonna be successful before they put money into it, right? And those are all questions that they're gonna have for you to be able to evaluate whether or not this is gonna be a viable business idea, a successful business idea.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

And even if you're not looking for an investor, don't you wanna vet out your own business before you

Track 1:

Right,

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

and sweat and your own money into it

Track 1:

for sure.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

gonna be viable? And this thing is. Like you have to know where is your business currently, and even if it doesn't exist right now, like where is your business and your vision is like where you, where is this business trying to go? What is this supposed to be? What? Who is it supposed to serve? And what pro business are? Businesses are only pro solutions to problems. At the end of the day, a businesses solves a problem.

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

what problem is your business solving and all of that is directly going to inform your marketing strategy. And not only is it like how is the marketing going to work in this bigger plan the business strategy is the road the marketing is. A part of the engine of the car that's going down the road of how you're gonna go get there. You gotta have the road first. to like go drive down a field. No road you.

Track 1:

Get stuck.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

It's just a part of the vehicle. And then a really big part where people don't think about is marketing is a spend department. It requires resources and allocation, and your business strategy is gonna tell you what resources you have and what resources you're going to need. your business strategy, your business strategy, marketing strategy, we can build it at like a very low end budget or very high end budget. And how that's gonna work. It's gonna just depend on how much resources you have available, and that's gonna come from your business strategy. And if you come in and being like, I have no budget, or, I don't know, like the sky's the limit, or like, I only have. No money, like information needs to be solid going into your marketing strategy or we're gonna build something out and completely have to change it where you're like, oh, like you built me the moon, but I really only can like afford this rock on earth next to me right now. Like it, it's really, really important to do all of that. And to your point of. Yes. Sometimes marketing is not the problem. It's other parts of the delivering the sales process that are the issue. Speaking on how all of those parts of like the funnel work together, right? So marketing's gonna be that top of funnel. It's gonna be that brand of awareness is gonna be bringing those leads in. And then you move through the middle of the funnel, which is like the sales process and the. And this part of this is still marketing. It's like the messaging and making sure you're attracting in the right people to do that at the top. And then you gotta take them through middle of the funnel to convert them. And then you still have to one, deliver the process at the bottom of the funnel and do all of that really well. So. To still make money in your business. Marketing's one part of the top of the funnel. So one, yeah, you could be doing that wrong and you're doing your messaging wrong and you're doing all of that wrong, but. Are you doing that wrong because your offer isn't built out right, or what it's actually solving it? Or are you not clear on your offer so your messaging isn't being informed correctly? Or are you losing people somewhere in the middle of that sales process it's, it's really hard to make a purchase, like, I have to do these 10 things to be able to sign a contract and pay you. Like, no, this, I, I don't have time to this. It's like, take my money.

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

And then it might be like, are you retaining the clients? Are you retaining the money or is it you're not getting that referrals and all of those things and you're not expanding your network? Which again, so it seems like it's a marketing issue. It's like, oh, if I just get more people in. But it's really like, oh, your internal business stuff is is not informing your marketing the right way, or it's losing them in the process of that entire funnel.

Track 1:

Or is it your operations that can't deliver on it?

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Oh yeah,

Track 1:

are, you're taking the money, right? You, you've accepted the order. You've accepted the, you know, the business from this client, and then you can't do anything with it. I mean, we're seeing that so much on TikTok right now because there's so much emphasis on the marketing and then it works, and then the, the business owner gets. A very tough position because now they have a massive amount of orders to fulfill and they don't have the setup to do it.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

No,'cause they're, they, they weren't ready, they didn't think about this. They didn't think about the resource allocation and what it would take. So yeah, I'm gonna put a million dollars into my marketing and get those hundred leads, but now you can't deliver it. And. you're not going to get that. The reputation and all of that, that's gonna feed into long-term money. So you got money

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

influx, not gonna be able to sustain that money because you weren't able to deliver. That's the bottom of the funnel, and that is going to hurt your business in the, it might not hurt you right now. Like in this moment,'cause you got that big influx of cash, but how are you gonna sustain it

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

And then you're like, oh, well I made that money before, like, why can't I make it now? Yeah.'cause you, you didn't deliver, you're not a reputable business at this point

Track 1:

mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

it just, it work out. it's thinking about all of those things before you're putting all this effort and money into, into your marketing that way.

Track 1:

Yeah, with that TikTok example, if the, if the customer experience on the back end of that purchase is very poor, you're probably gonna lose that customer and it's. Been a known fact for a very long time, that it's cheaper to retain customers than it is to acquire new customers. And if you've already done the work and put the money into acquiring those customers, you've gotta keep'em around because with how quickly information spreads on social media these days, I mean, so quickly, right? I mean, there's. Probably topics that we could talk about, just how easy information spreads. But you know, that's, that's really where it could make or break for a small business. You know, if you're, either you, you could go viral because everybody's super happy with your, with your product and how easy it was to purchase and how quickly they were able to get it, or they. Say you took your, your, you took their money, and then they sat there for four weeks waiting for it to get delivered, and then they canceled the order because there was no updates, there was no communication, and it was an unreasonable amount of time for them to get their product.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yeah. And I think this speaks to not having that holistic business strategy or coordination between operations and marketing, where it's, they're in conversation. So it's a very clear. Understanding of the marketing department of what you are delivering and how it's going to be delivered, which can be spoken to in your marketing. So one, I think there's twofold issues here. It's like one is your marketing actually speaking to the actual solution you're delivering. is your marketing just what sounds good and it's getting people in and then you're not actually selling that one. You're either gonna lose them in the sales process or you're gonna lose them a delivery because you're delivering something else that they paid for. And then it's gonna be like, this is not what I paid for, or two. They're, they'll be fine with the messaging, the product's, actually, what you say it is because they're on the same page and you're making the sales and all of that. And then you try to deliver it and it, and it falls apart. And it's just like you aren't honoring what you said in both scenarios. You're not fulfilling the promise you made in your marketing. So yeah, that looks like a marketing problem, but that's a further down the funnel problem and a lack of communication between the department's problem. Or it could even be an issue where you think messaging is with what you're selling. And you're like, but why are these not the right fit clients? Or why are these not the right fit customers? Like, why are they unhappy with the product? There's still a misalignment there. And maybe just maybe if there was clarity on what your mission is, clarity on what your vision is and what problem you're solving and what is your differentiate and factors, it would all align better. It's all about having all the alignments and everything moving and momentum in the same direction. And I know I've heard this from marketing professionals and Ashley, I definitely wanna hear your take on this, you will hear complaints from the marketing departments of businesses about operations and how it's just the, makes your life so much harder. Like what do you think is feeding into that? What's making that happen? And what does that say for a small business owner? Like is this a money leak?

Track 1:

Like relating to the examples that we have around operations, not fulfilling on what marketing is.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

or, yeah, or operation's not fulfilling on what marketing is doing, or it just operations making market marketing's life harder.

Track 1:

Yeah. So I think, like marketing can only do so much it can only put a bandaid for so long if there's other issues going in. So on the backend, you know, if there's. Operations isn't working in tandem with marketing and they're, they're going at two different speeds. They have two different focuses. Obviously there's gonna be, you know, fundamentals that are different because operations is operations as marketing is marketing, but they really need to work together because otherwise the customer is gonna be impacted. At the end of the day when they're, either the customer's gonna have a great experience because everything's working together, or the customer's gonna have a terrible experience because everyone's working separately and the marketing can only combat negative reviews. Poor customer feedback lack of return, customers so much there's only so much that you can do about it. But if everybody's working together and operations is able to hold their own and keep things working smoothly and everything is out going out smoothly, then it's gonna make everything easier for marketing because then there's gonna be so many more happy customers, return customers, return clients. The advocacy is going to be there in that customer journey. And that's something that we put into our marketing strategies because it really is a full circle, right? There's the unaware, they're considering purchasing, they make the purchase, the delivery is there, and then there's the advocacy. And we can bring them all the way to the purchasing point, and then it needs to get fulfilled, and then the advocacy happens. So operations is right in the middle of all of that. And if we take out that, that core part of the delivery, what else are we supposed to do?

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

This is where the emotional part for business owners comes in. It's like you start getting stressed out and you're like, things are not working. Something's wrong. Either putting pressure on yourself'cause you're doing your own marketing, or your marketing team or whoever it is, it's like, solve this problem, solve this problem. It's obviously a you problem'cause it's visible, is in your face. Like, I'm not getting money. I need to do marketing.

Track 1:

Yep.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

of these things where, and I'm gonna shove more money at it, whatever it is, and you better produce this ROI. I, not saying it's never a marketing issue, sometimes it is a mis misalignment. Maybe sometimes it is a messaging issue. It might be those things, but it could very, very well be a different part of your business that's impacting, impacting marketing, and that's the part that makes it hard on marketers being like, I'm doing the best I can with one, with the resources I have, like where we're at with what resources are available or that may not be available in their. Sucking a business dry and it's these other parts that all need to be evaluated.

Track 1:

And this is where KPIs come in too. The KPIs are a big part of that, and that's where it can really help to identify where some of these issues are coming from or maybe what the root cause is.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

yeah. And not just marketing KPIs,

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

You lay out your business strategy, you build out your business objectives and each of those objectives of what you're trying to achieve a KPI has key results along with it, which has KPIs to it and you're tracking all of those and where you can look at your IT all holistically with this data and really hone in on, okay, there's the issue.'cause these numbers are not where they need to be. Let's pick this out and fix this. Instead of it being based on vibes,

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

oh, I think it is. And when you think it is, the answer's always gonna be, marketing

Track 1:

mm-Hmm. Yeah.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

the issue when it could be something else because you're just going based on assumption and thoughts and vibes and things like that. And what you can see instead of taking a step back and looking at it all holistically. And that starts with having your business objectives first, because if you don't have that, you're not gonna be able to set up KPIs

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Pull it and do what it needs to be. Which again, if you don't have the business objectives, you're not gonna be able to align your marketing strategy. So it all up there. And I think there's two facets in really setting those as well. One, if you are a currently operating business and you want. Things to change in your business, that can be where you get your business objectives from. Or if you're someone just starting out or you're building a new arm of your business or anything like that, that's where having your mission and vision is going to lay out those objectives and those objectives and those key results that all of that is gonna inform your operations, your marketing, all of that. And they all need to work together so they're all going in the same direction instead of pulling you in 10 different directions. And that's where. Small business owner burnout. That's where like PE businesses are going into bankruptcy.'cause they're not putting, they're not being efficient with the work that's being put into the business. It's really a physics problem

Track 1:

I would love to put out.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

arrows and all the errors are pulling the car in the different directions instead of one direction.

Track 1:

Right? No, totally. I would, I would love to put out an example because they're like a big, well-known business that you can think of that either is doing really well or has really dropped the ball on this.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

I feel like I probably do, and we've probably talked about it in our WhatsApp messages. And now I'm gonna have to think about it in on demand.

Track 1:

So maybe these the prime bites, do you remember those protein. I think that it's the alpha prime bytes. I think that they did really well with all of this, with their marketing and their operations, and I think a lot of it comes down to the transparency that they had and the influencer style content that was going out about them because. So I bought a box of these pro, these prime bites. They're like little protein brownies on TikTok shop. This is probably two months ago now, right? This is, this is a while ago.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yeah.

Track 1:

And they had caught my attention for a while because there was so much content going out about how good they tasted and their texture of these protein bars. And if you've had a protein bar, you know that anything, this is whatever flavor it is, totally misses the mark. It never tastes like a chocolate chip cookie. It never tastes like a brownie, and the texture is. Nine times outta 10. Terrible. Right? It makes your jaw just tired. It's super gritty, it's super dry. But this, everything that people were saying about this was the total opposite. And I think a lot of people these days really struggle with influencer marketing because there's been so many influencers that have done people wrong in saying that something is really great and then you get it. And it is not what this influencer has described, right? So these protein pipes. We're spot on exactly what I imagined based on all of the marketing that was going out about them. But I decided to buy this time around because they said that there was an issue with their packaging. They didn't have the right packaging to send out this variety box in their normal. Packaging that they would've sent it out in. So they said, so for now we're, we will just send it to you just in a straight cardboard box. We're just gonna pack it in the box directly, but you'll get a$10 off coupon for the next time that you order and like a$30 box. So I would, I would've gotten it for$20 the next time around, and I was like, great. Why not easy? I, I love a deal. So, I mean, I could be an easy sell that way. But they showed the, the packaging, these new orders, they showed what this, what it was gonna look like, and it, when I got my order, it was exactly as they described it. It was within the timeframe that I expected it. The packaging, the shipping, the, yeah, the way that they packaged my order was exactly the way that they showed it on. Their content. And so all of my expectations were met, if not exceeded, because of how good these brownies are. I mean, even my kids like these brownies, so

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

That's dangerous

Track 1:

know

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

they're expensive

Track 1:

they.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

and now it's like a snack. You have to hide. You can always count on protein, whatever. To not be a snack, you have to hide. Yeah, so I think this speaks really, really well to having good coordination between marketing and operations. So this is obviously like we have no internal insight, but just my inference on what happened here is they took off, they went whatever marketing situation happened that got them an influx of sales, which we all want. We all want that to happen, and there's only so much that you can predict. That that's gonna happen, especially the way marketing is right now. Especially how social media is right now, how sales processes are working. You can only predict so much, especially when you are honing and refining your sales process. So there's only so much you can predict. You don't know what's gonna happen. Is this gonna work or is it not gonna work? Is it going to be very effective or not effective at all? And then if it turns out to be like gangbusters, like. Great, now you have to deliver on it. And they ended up in a situation where they were like, we can kind of deliver on it. It's gonna look a little bit different, but we can at least get them the product that they paid for. But say that they didn't, there was no communication between the departments. was no communication between whatever their fulfillment process is and marketing still doing. What marketing does is setting whatever the expectation is. And operations is like, well, we can only fulfill it this way. And they're just like, this is what we're gonna do just to make sure it fixes and works.'cause we're getting So a way to kind of understand how fulfillment works. It's really a. Playing baton or like, you know, when you're doing a relay race, it's like this, the baton gets handed off to this and then it gets handed off to this. And then marketing is like, I got, I did my job, I got my leads. Here you go. Here's the baton.

Track 1:

There's the.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

And then, yeah, and then it just goes down. And then operations are like, whoop, I got my 50 batons. I can only fulfill 20 of these. The way we decided early on. And I can't fulfill these other 25, but I can kind of do it and solve this problem because that's, operations really is just solving problems constantly. That's all you're doing. Like consistently coming up with creative solutions like all the time. And so it's like, okay, yeah, I can do this and get it out. And it's technically the same thing, but marketing up here set a certain expectation of what the, what they were gonna, what these people were gonna be getting.

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

But operations is delivering. Kind of the same thing, but it's a different expectation. there's no feedback loop back to marketing, to fix and correct and move things forward. So that's what they did really well. was a conversation being like, Hey, for us to fulfill this, we have to make things different and change things up so we can actually get this product out there. Make sure we're setting that expectation upfront. And that speaks huge to client experience. Huge being like, Hey, we're gonna have to course correct. there's this feedback loop. I'm giving you this feedback. Like adjust what you're doing here so it all stays the same.

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

that this is a scenario of where. A problem occurred. There were needed to be a solution in that feedback loop needed to happen to keep the client experience and intact, even if there wasn't a problem, they clearly have good communication throughout their pipeline because if didn't have to problem solve this, and it was just moving through their fulfillment process as as it is, the expectation was very, very clear. In marketing what would be delivered at the end through the, through the customer process. And that's because they had a very well-defined client experience, their framework is, how their product works, what it is. And it's very, very clear that people that are doing the marketing. Are part of that whole conversation so they can speak to it genuinely, authentically, very clearly. And that sets up for an amazing client experience except, and the client and the customer doesn't feel gypped at the end of the day. And that's because there's feed, book, feedback loops and conversations between the entire process. And that's what's really important. And that can only happen. you have a full strategy and full open communications throughout the entire business and people aren't siloed, which that was huge for businesses in the eighties. would silo departments and you would do what you would need to do. And there was no like, and I think this came out in like the nineties, or like, oh, we need synergy. So this is really that, but it's like at a different level where there's, you are breaking down the silo, so you're going into more of a flat organization where everybody is talking to everybody so they're on the same page. So it can all work together.'cause it has to because the consumer is different. Now, the expectation you set up front needs to follow all the way through. Or it's gonna spread around that you're not doing that, you're not fulfilling it. And that's, that's a problem. And that comes from setting that larger business strategy and all the different parts, into that and actually delivering what they're saying. And then like marketing's there for

Track 1:

Yeah. Yeah. So one of the ways that we combat that in our process is that when we are developing that strategy, we are asking you, or we're asking the client, what is your working process? What is the product or service that you're selling? How do you fulfill on that? Because in the marketing, we have to be talking about. What that fulfillment process is, at least to some degree, to set up the proper expectations for that client. Because like, like your example from businesses in the eighties, and I've even experienced this in past, in my past corporate jobs, the people that were doing the selling, if they don't actually know what the experience is gonna be like on the back end, the expectations are gonna be totally wrong. And it's, it's just gonna be a bad situation.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Well,

Track 1:

Bad situation.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

customers customer service is failing. Like they have horrible customer service. Oh, well, so and so told me I was gonna get X, Y, and Z. It's like, well, we don't even sell that.

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Like we, we don't, we don't, we we don't do that here type of situation. And it's like, oh, well customer service numbers suck. Like, what are we doing wrong? Does marketing know that they're putting out messaging that like doesn't exist in this business? Were

Track 1:

Right, right.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Like No,

Track 1:

know that there

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

out.

Track 1:

are limitations on the backend to prevent certain things from happening so that when.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

and it's all a Domino's.

Track 1:

So it may not even actually be poor customer service. It may just be poor expectation setting.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Exactly and it all, like again, I keep bringing, it's all needs to work together. They all need to be talking and everybody needs to know what's going on with everybody. And it's a transparency is super important.'cause one operations is gonna be able to catch when something isn't aligned and work and come up with that solution to make sure it's all aligned. But that's only gonna happen if there's. Open transparency and transparency is so important in, in your organizational development

Track 1:

Mm-Hmm.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

making sure that the communication and the feedback loop is set up and everybody knows what's going on with everybody.'cause then you cannot solve, you can solve problems, but it's not gonna be a solution that is sustainable, that's scalable and all of that. It's just not, it's not gonna work.

Track 1:

It just all needs to work together, and if you are looking for your business to not just be a side gig, a little short term hobby. These are bigger, bigger issues that as the CEO, as the business owner, they need to be top of mind for you when you're leading the business. And this is something that your, any manager within your business needs to be very clear on and on the same page with you about so that they can lead in that same way and they can execute on your vision in that same way and help you to see when there are those gaps. That when marketing and operations aren't talking together so that they can have those conversations with you in real time. Not, hey, for the last four months I've been seeing this in our engagement. Meanwhile, operations is still doing their thing'cause they have no idea that there's an issue. Or maybe they're doing everything perfectly and it's the marketing team that doesn't have that, doesn't know that there's an issue there needs to be able to have that open communication.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yeah, and I think that's really why we started our agency, isn't

Track 1:

Yeah.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Because it was like, Hey, I can do all these great things for a business, but then there's like no leads or sales coming in and you're like, I'm getting all of this stuff and, but the business is just not operating at a point where they can actually do anything with the work I'm doing. And it's disjointed. It's not working. And it's like, well, why don't we do an operations and marketing agency where. You and I, and then our counterpart team members that are marketing and operations, we talk so much and we're on the same page and we can lead a client through that being like, Hey, yeah, you came here for a marketing strategy, but we're gonna add offer development. We're gonna add process and systems and all of that, and that's going to feed in and inform the marketing strategy you come up with.

Track 1:

Yeah, because oftentimes it's not just. The marketing. Marketing is this often a symptom of something else, and we'll figure out what that something else is.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yeah. We have to figure it all out and then we will figure out, we, we're gonna get the data, we're gonna look at it, and we're gonna pick it out and fix that one thing, then it'll, it'll all over time. Flow smoothly.

Track 1:

Well-oiled machine.

safa-harris_4_02-26-2024_120406:

Yes.

And that wraps up another episode of the business millennials podcast. We hope you found this conversation, thought provoking, inspirational, and helps you make a larger impact with your business. Growth is not just about profits or revenue. It's a journey of personal development, contribution, and bettering ourselves in society. Our challenge for you take at least one key lesson from our time together today that you can apply not just to your business. But your relationships, creative expression, well being, and personal evolution too. We appreciate you tuning in. If you enjoyed this show, we invite you to pay it forward. Share it with an entrepreneur, creative, student, or community leader who needs an infusion of insight or inspiration right now. And make sure to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen so you never miss a single episode. And if you like what you heard, leave us a five star review. See you next week.